Tamir Rice

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Tamir Rice

Postby juansamuel » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:20 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/opini ... p=cur&_r=0

This to me was a tough case. I've been around and around on it. The original 911 caller stated that it may have been a toy gun, but this wasn't relayed to the police. He was on a playground, but it wasn't clear whether or not there were other children there at the time of police's arrival. How does law enforcement respond to this situation in order to keep the public safe and apprehend the alleged perpetrator? It seems like they could have kept a safe distance and had him put his hands up, which it doesn't appear that they did from the video. Then again, if there's a playground behind him with children that he may have threatened, is the right call to act quickly and neutralize the threat?

I'm certainly very critical of law enforcement, but I can't just summarily say that every time they kill a black person, they're wrong. I just don't really know what should happen to the police officer who killed Tamir Rice.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby elprof » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:23 pm

I'm pretty much with you. I did see a report where the cop who did the shooting had some problems in the path with being unstable.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby cheapseats » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:11 pm

I really can't come up with any scenario that justifies Ramboing up off-roading in a police car and blowing someone away literally while the car is still moving. If the cop's actions can be justified as correct we need a massive overhaul in use of force rules for cops.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby juansamuel » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:37 pm

cheapseats wrote:Have you not seen the video? I really can't come up with any scenario that justifies Ramboing up off-roading in a police car and blowing someone away literally while the car is still moving.


I saw the video. I'm conflicted. I detailed that above.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby cheapseats » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:45 pm

Yeah. I edited that out, as clearly you had. But I don't feel conflicted, I feel like a cop killed a 12 year old out of AT BEST, gross negligence.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby cheapseats » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:04 pm

From Wikipedia:
Inconsistencies in police account
The initial account was given by Deputy Chief of Field Operations Ed Tomba, before the video emerged:[22]

Police said that Rice was seated at a table with other people. The video showed that Rice was alone.[44]
Police said that as they pulled up, they saw Rice grab the pellet gun and put it in his waistband. This is not supported by the video.[45] Judge Adrine said the video does not show the pellet gun in Rice's hands in the moments immediately before as the zone car approaches.[8]
Police said that Rice then reached into his waistband and pulled out the pellet gun, and was then shot and killed by Officer Timothy Loehmann. The video shows that Rice did not pull out the pellet gun.[46] In the video, Rice is using both hands to hold his shirt up and expose the pellet gun to view just before he falls to the ground.
Police described the pellet gun as looking real and later explained that the neon tip of the pellet gun was missing.[9] However the police never saw Rice brandish or point the pistol at them to determine if the orange cap was actually missing or not.[9]
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby SLAYER666 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:14 pm

Multiple cops making incorrect statements (lying?) in their reports seems to be a common occurrence in a lot of these high profile cases.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby elprof » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:20 pm

SLAYER666 wrote:Multiple cops making incorrect statements (lying?) in their reports seems to be a common occurrence in a lot of these high profile cases.


Of course that's been going on for decades. The availability of video in many forms is exposing a lot of that.
Virtually everything GOP critics have told us would follow from the policies put in place has not come to pass. You would think that this would occasion a few mea culpas, some rethinking, an admission of poor prognostication. But, alas, it continues.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby Dauber Dybinski » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:51 am

cheapseats wrote:I really can't come up with any scenario that justifies Ramboing up off-roading in a police car and blowing someone away literally while the car is still moving. If the cop's actions can be justified as correct we need a massive overhaul in use of force rules for cops.


This is where I'm at. The cops didn't even attempt to assess the situation. IF they thought he had a live gun, and this was how they felt it was appropriate to handle the situation, they have no business being cops. It's mindblowingly tragic that a family had to lose a kid who was not even a teenager because these cops wanted to play Rambo.

To add to that, apparently the DA hired expert witnesses that said the cops' actions were reasonable. I honestly can't think of another time that a DA has hired testimony that would help the potential defendant and hurt the plaintiff.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby juansamuel » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:49 am

Dauber Dybinski wrote:
To add to that, apparently the DA hired expert witnesses that said the cops' actions were reasonable. I honestly can't think of another time that a DA has hired testimony that would help the potential defendant and hurt the plaintiff.



Well, that's fishy as fuck.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby Dauber Dybinski » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:22 pm

juansamuel wrote:
Dauber Dybinski wrote:
To add to that, apparently the DA hired expert witnesses that said the cops' actions were reasonable. I honestly can't think of another time that a DA has hired testimony that would help the potential defendant and hurt the plaintiff.



Well, that's fishy as fuck.


That comment comes from the attorney of Tamir Rice's family, so take it with a grain of salt if you feel the need.

https://twitter.com/AriMelber/status/681562319105572864

Here's another article that talks about how prosecutors have started twisting grand jury proceedings to the favor of LEOs. If you like the legal stuff, Ari is a good follow on twitter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... _tw-bottom
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby THEbrickwall » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:41 pm

Can they not aim for a thigh or knee cap in some of these situations? Why is it always a kill shot?


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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby SLAYER666 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:48 pm

My cousin is in law enforcement. Says if you are going to shoot you shoot for the biggest target, the torso.
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby Millwood » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:51 pm

Shouldn't these black dudes be getting shot in the dick then?
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby Dauber Dybinski » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:17 am

THEbrickwall wrote:Can they not aim for a thigh or knee cap in some of these situations? Why is it always a kill shot?


Sent from my typewriter.


As much as I would want this, IF someone actually felt in fear for his/her life, I think it's too much of a risk to take. Shooting accurately is not as easy as Hollywood makes it (Star Wars excluded - very low hit rate for those first 3 movies).
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Re: Tamir Rice

Postby elprof » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:54 pm

Millwood wrote:Shouldn't these black dudes be getting shot in the dick then?


Too much danger of ricochet.
Virtually everything GOP critics have told us would follow from the policies put in place has not come to pass. You would think that this would occasion a few mea culpas, some rethinking, an admission of poor prognostication. But, alas, it continues.
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